Transcript:Open Forum on Hispanic Studies and Latin American Studies, and the future of U.S. Latina/o Studies

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This is an ¡Adelante! document from the 2003-2004 year.

Contents

[edit] Introductory notes

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The Open Forum on Hispanic Studies and Latin American Studies, and the future of U.S. Latina/o Studies at Macalester took place in the Weyerhauser Chapel on Monday, March 29th, 2004, from 4:40 to 5:30pm. Transcribed on April 4th and 5th of 2004.

The discussion was recorded using a tape recorder that Tova Sularz carried. You may see many "..."s when people start talking (which is the time it takes Tova to run and reach the person with recorder in hand) or when people spoke from a distance. Additionally, people who spoke slowly were most faithfully represented.

[edit] Some notations

[irrecog: blah blah] means that the utterance was not audible enough, but that I think that “blah blah” was said.

[irrecog] means that it was not intelligible and words may have been skipped.

blah(?) means that the word appears to be “blah” but that it’s not entirely clear.

[someone speaks] means that someone spoke and her or his name could not be identified. Most often, what they said is not intelligible either.

(laugh) means laugh in the audience

Gretchen Solomon: ... to discuss the Hispanic Studies and Latin American Studies Department at Macalester and the future of Latino Latina Program. If anyone wants to.. have opinions, questions, this is a good opportunity to get them out and possibly have a few questions answered.

Unknown speaker: Is the professor Jim Stewart coming?

Gretchen Solomon: Actually, first question to start with - I believe he had an interntion of coming and I expect him to come. Should we wait a couple minutes?

Yongho Kim: I think someone should come up and introduce ths issue.

María Elena Cepeda: and I'm a professor in Hispanic Studies right now and I do a lot of work between hispanic and american studies because I teach U.S. Latino Studies. And from what I understand, there is a lot of student interest in U.S. Latino Studies - as has been expressed to me, and I'm just here to hear some peoples' opinions and have people, kind of help students. Maybe we can work together and kind of put together.. what do you say.. efforts, and get our efforts together and see if we can come up with a formal way of starting Latino Studis at Macalester in a more institutionalized fashion.

Jim Stewart: ... what we are now, and where we are now kind of thing, because I'm super lost. [joke about certain people in the government] cuz if you are, I want to hear a few things too. [laugh] Uh, this is a concerning me, to tape it.

Gretchen Solomon: It's for me, because I won't be able to be here the whole time. (Oh, ok) And for everyone else, it'll be sent out

[edit] Participants at the beginning of the forum

Gretchen Solomon, Tova Sularz, Jessica Ramírez, Raymond Robertson, María Elena Cepeda, Matt Martínez, Alex Rivero, Erik Morales, Jessica Ramírez, Ana Nájera-Mendoza, Jim Stewart, David Sunderland, Rogelio Miñana, Fabiola Franco, Tony Dorca, Sneh Rao, Freda Fair, Aviva Kana, Danielle Maestretti, Katherine Yngve, Helen Warren, Erika Jerme, Yongho Kim

[edit] Forum Participants

[edit] Forum

[edit] Latin American Studies

(from here on as LTAM)

Jim Stewart: I've been the director of LTAM for.. I'm in my fourth year. (Yeah, fourth year). Yeah. It feels like it was only yesterday that I started this. And during this period of time, we've done a bunch of wonderful stuff, ah, how many of you know about Menendez Escarrion? Ahah. Ok. Miss Machismo was here for a couple years and she has done a tremendous amount of wonderful teaching, and was the Humphrey Professor in comparative politics in latin america through us. She worked with us to develop a whole new curriculum. A whole new curriculum, which is now in this year's catalog. And if you want to find out what the LTAM curriculum is going to look like, in a pretty much complete sense, although we may modify and change it, we would like to have your suggestions and ideas that you have in the future - but it's going to be in this year's catalog and it ain't gonna change. There has been a number of administrative questions about the futrue of LTAM - [irrecog: who is it going to be port through] , is it gonna be a major, is it gonna be a concentration, is it gonna be sucked up into somebody else's department? I don't know if you have heard all of these questions or not, but those are the questions for the [irrecog] people. But those questions that have been around on the surface, deep down underneath, many of us who are sitting down in this room, have been responsible to pulling together a big, strong, solid major that it's gonna be coming a vigorous [irrecog] for next year, beginning full-time, comparative political scientist who does nothing but LTAM. His name is Paul Dosh and he's a very experienced, highly regarded, successful professor from Carleton who has a Ph.D. from the UCB and many people have come away for his interview. And so what we have now is a big and, I think, very confident major that connects on the one end, the humanities, in the department of hispanic studies, and in another end, into social sciences, through economics and political science and through international studies. Also we are in a position now of thinking much more about what kinds of things go into a major because the - it used to be called the Spanish Department, until the last year or so, has gone through a very deliberate self-transformation of its own, which now leads to a different name, but it also leaves it with a different faculty that it used to have. Maria Elena Cepeda, you are in your first year, since I met you forever. (laugh). Maria Elena bring a bunch of new studies to the department that were not there before - there is a new hire coming next fall - Caraca? (someone talks) Ok. Somebody who is a mellon post-doctoral fellow who has done a lot of culture and music and things like that. (someone talks) Visual arts. Ok. (someone talks) Oh! Anthea.(?) So as you.. and at the same time we have a continuing of strikes of people who Fabiola Franco, David Sunderland, (someone talks) I'll think it's best to ask! No, serious. I think it's best to consolidate. And I haven't even mentioned Galo Gonzalez yet. So, what you can see is a real mix and blend of old, strong and important traditional things that we do, and together with a lot of integreationwith new things and new peole. So we have a real strong and vibrant and dynamic major which we are really really proud of. It's as much anchored as international studies as it was - after Samatar and I - many people know, we arew close collaborators and like each other greatly. At the same time I have [irrecog] who have taught me spanish (laugh) who really stimulated a lot of peoples' interests including my own getting into this department in the first place - that is the department we used to call Spanish and got more complex as Hispanic Studies. We sort of bridge three different groups. But that'll come together as a major work. So that what we've been really working at this superficial static, kind of background noise about where we are supposed to be, and what we are supposed to become, has been going on. And that' s been solved too. Last faculty meeting, there was a very nice and agreeable fellows, and faculty meetings have been very contentious recently for the students who come to our programs, and you have heard about what's been going on about Russian Studies. We really disagreed and had a big fight. We had a sort and loud feast. We had a few questions back and forth. And the festivals, we have a cool idea to be able to integrate LTAM program, with Hispanic Studies on the one hand, keeping the relations with International Studies on the other. Faculty voted on the measure - it was a 100 bazillion to nothing, and everybody was pleased to see an actual piece that was coming together to the faculty meeting, that was a meeting we got disposed of, which is also very useful. [irrecog] so this was really important to see it happen in such as way, because it means the faculty side of all of this, and the administrative side of all of this, with a very strong feeling that we had accomplished something. Any questions about this? Yeah!

Danielle Maestretti: I kind of have a question. So within the Department of Hispanic Studies there will be a major called LTAM?

Jim Stewart: Ah.. a low side and inspired by, the connection with the Hispanic Studies (laugh) I just gotta get the verbs right. (laugh) there will be an autonomous and independently conducted thing, called Latin American Studies major. If you can understand the basic principles of Federalism. (laugh) No, i'm serious! Minnesota and the United States, that you have to say, Minnesota and Iowa, and Wisconsin, are part of United States reserving themselves certain powers of their own. That's just to make things work. Hispanic Studies has NO desire, because I know Tony wants no more responsibilities than what he already has, to actually run LTAM. (laugh) You know, I tell ya. (someone talks). No, of course, I don't. We have to save time in keeping this broad-time intellectual and cultural relationship with the people who have brought it this far. It would be crazy to do that. So I think the idea is as a federation; rather than as incorporation, which is the whacked way to do it. nobody's gonna mix Hispanic Studies agenda and business, with the LTAM business. The directors of LTAM are from here, and for the next several years. This has to be worked out in detail. The principles have been established and I think it is fine to get [Raymond Robertson] and it will be me, for maybe this year or next year, to get some priorities. And last time I looked he is not in the Hispanic Studies Dept. So can you see how this all fits together, in a sort of nice, sort of pieces in a mosaic, that doesn't at the same blend everything back together - a major, is major that will be decided off on, by LTAM Steering Committee - not the Spanish Department, advising will be done by LTAM Steering Committee. Members that are distributed everywhere from Hispanic Studies, through History, through Political Science, through Econ, not by the Spanish Department or the International Studies department. you got them all now? (uhuh) this has been a difficult thing to do, because the college is trying to figure out what to do with all of its [area studies programs] And some programs, like us, are very highly developed, and if you put, intellectual and student assets, and study abroad assets, you gotta be doing very fine in anywhere in the United States, you look good. We are really really big. That is not really the same thing if you take a small program, like, say African Studies. Which is just.. doesn't have the kind of faculty and student history to have been developed. So they have to be handled in a different way. And so the college has finally decided to do this, and I think I understood it best, is to sort of move interdisciplinary programs kind of figure out the best solution for each one. And in the case of Russian Studies they've gotten into a big, fight, and in the case of LTAM we got a very good consensus among people who are very good friends, and who have established a long record of [irrecog] extremely well. That's a long answer to your question, but I thought the motivation of your question really was, how autonomous (right), how used this thing will be in the other place - does this answer your question?

Danielle Maestretti: right. it was just a wording question.

Jim Stewart: Ok. because the words are, (LAS calling LTAM). I would call it LTAM. But to call it it needs to have all these elements of.. federation. And autonomy to make this happen.

Tony Dorca: and for all of you, I'm the chair of Hispanic Studies and basically the thing now.. to apply to reason here, is that LTAM to continue, as a major, it needed to be housed somewhere. And this has something with the number of FTEs (full time faculty) who would be jointly in LTAM. There is a minimum of 2 people; since the college doesn't have the resources at this moment to provide all these people, they said, why don't we house it with Spanish, or Hispanic Studies. So in a way, if I may say so, it stems to Hispanic Studies, LTAM will continue as a major. If we had opposed that, then LAS I am afraid it would have been demoted to sort of a minor, or maybe a concentration. So there's not too many happy with that this has happened, but it happened also, because our department was very very entusiasta .. favorable.. oh yes.

Jim Stewart: Thank you. We are not supposed to be running this meeting. Faculty are supposed to... and now that we have ths example. So we're not gonna say anything more. Unless you ask.

Alex Rivero: Could you talk about what the concerns are in regards to the Department? I am not informed so I would like to know.

[edit] The name "Hispanic Studies"

Erik Morales: my main concern is, why does this department need to be labeled, or called, hispanic studies. You know, I haven't heard that word and all the sudden it came to me in Minnesota. And I take that part as a.. offensive type of label that is being placed here.

Tony Dorca: I'm not.. I know that.. we named it Hispanic Studies department because Hispanic Studies is THE name that is being used everywhere in the United States. These are very conventional, very conventional and used everywhere. If you could come up with a better name, let us know. We'll be happy to adapt it.

Erik Morales: Ok

Fabiola Franco: how .. to be.. has a become to be understood as people from Spain, Latinos in the United States, and Central and Latin and South America. So it's a word, that nowadays, united, unites all of us. It really has that goal.

Erik Morales: this has been going on.. I know, [irrecog] several pieces written about this. And one thing to take into consideration is that the U.S. census is now changing - it's not using that word - it's figuring out to be a better suit of word. So for instance someone who is from portuguese background, I mean, they don't really have that spanish built in, because they were colonized by Portugal, when, "hispanic" was created by the Nixon presidential group who was trying to figure out, how do we label this group of people who are speaking spanish. But because these people from portuguese, we'll just toss them in there, since they're right next to one another. So I'm kind of feeling, what are my people who are from Brasil. I can feel when their classes are taking on this giant label.

Fabiola Franco: .... to the island. I mean, brasilian being hispanic? Hispanic is related immediately to the language which is from Spain. It covers all the spanish speakers. And of course we'll always find people who come up with theries to fight the other theory. That's what the world is about. Otherwise, there wouldn't be dialog. And dialog is important.

Jim Stewart: I just wanted make fabulous, last point. You can do the same thing to LTAM. Latin America, what is Latin America mean? Does that mean that we don't talk about, or do talk about, the British Columbia? Does it have something to do about, indigenous societies? And you can go on, and on and on, taking these things apart and unpacking them. And I think your comments, are the kind of comments that what represent the tensions in the field. That make the study of the field under any - what is American History, for Christ's sake? For most people, it's conflation of the term, United States with "American". Now you don't do that. A bet you don't. But if George Bush stands up and says "America", you take exception to that. You think that he is speaking to the United States by trying to claim more than that for himself. I mean, there are a lot of different ways, but all of these forms are contential and all are involved in academic contentions. The fact that you are groomed in authors who can test this term, is part of what the richness of the field is about. But you have to label things something. And I think what Fabiola's suggested so far is that you want a term that is big, and flexible, and dynamic as it can be to invite a big as a discussion as you can have. That fair?

Fabiola Franco: ..and for that.. many people are from something. Any people ... [irrecog]

Erik Morales: I know, but it's just that I don't really want to say that I am hispanic. It's just doesn't feel like that to me.

Jim Stewart: [irrecog] (uhuh). I think, in fact you are personalizing it. If you don't do that, I understand what you're saying, you're just being the exception. Then in a lot of ways [irrecog] so the idea is that you know exactly what you're supposed to be doing. At the same time it's exactly what it's like getting an education in any department [irrecog]

Fabiola Franco: .. and I am from Colombia. I am an american citizen. And I am, an american. You [irrecog] I don't want that to my [irrecog] to my nothing. I am an american citizen. and [irrecog]

Erik Morales: So in other ways, you want this to be the beginning point of a dialogue as to why should we call this the hispanic studies in the first place.

Jim Stewart: or more richly, what do you mean by "Hispanic Studies"?

Erik Morales: correct.

Jim Stewart: If that's about the label, then why are you going for another label, anyway?

Matt Martinez: and going back to the term, I suport Erik's concern. I'm Matt Martinez, visiting faculty of American Studies and the problem with the problem "Hispanic" is that it negates the indigenous identity of the majority of people in Latin america. And any course in LTAM needs to have indigenous peoples as a central part of that component too. And in a term like that, you get the whole history of the people. Within the US, and I'll tie in the US as well too, I'm just wondering what, how this program is self-crafting that label or the major in the studies when you negate a whole millions of people who are indigenus to this country. The term "hispanic" just erases peoples' history.

Fabiola Franco: ... it symbolizes all peoples. ... Any race, different races, all colors. All colors in the world ...

Rogelio Miñana: I think.. I know where the concern comes from. Spain. Since I am a spaniard, I will address that issue. (laugh) I think that I will never call myself a hispanic, myself. I'm from spain, whether I like it or not that's not the point but I'm from Spain, period. However, "hispanic", to me, that doesn't mean spanish. Hispanic, is precisely the evolution of what the mixture of spaniards, and indigenous peoples, and people who live in Colombia, or Peru, or in Spain or the US. So that's what really "hispanic studies" means to me - the study of the people who have a descent of, you know, either Spanish, like Spanish from Spain or Latin America, out of that mixture of indigenous peoples and spanish peoples and so on and so forth. So "hispanic" is really, it's not a good, a perfect term. Now you could give us an alternative. That would be awesome. I mean, if you come up with a better term for it, what we do, that's perfect. And it's very [irrecog] this is a dialogue! We are open to changes, but you have to demonstrate to us, that you have a better term than "hispanic". So you wanna, Maria Elena?

María Elena Cepeda: I got the.. just from my a perspective coming from my own field, the Latino Studies, I guess, I could understand what you're talking about, Erik, Matt and I, about the risk of getting the big trouble of my own department. I actually have a very similarly action when the term is put on me. It's true, it's the standard term that is used in departments in this country now that used to be called "spanish departments" or "romance language departments" and others switched over to what is called "hispanic studies". Think of somebody who does (someone says something) yeah, that's across the nation. And actually I've heard of it on international fronts as well, in a few cases. As somebody who does U.S. Latino Studies, just because of the historical connotations attached to the term "hispanic" which comes from the nixon administration, which started to be implemented in the 1970's and it's very much sort of a top-down term. And it's imposed on people. There's been a reaction, in the U.S. Latino communities, to that term and it hasn't been favorable in a lot of ways. So, and also, being under that, doing what I do, has been kind of reconciling myself with the whole term of hispanic studies, even when I understand the utility of the term as an umbrella term, that it applies to spanish-speaking peoples all over the world, even though that does erase the african communities and the millions of peoples of indigenous descent in Latin America or the United States in what is now the United States. So I'm wrestling with it too, but I would like to invite people to think about other alternative terms that we can maybe debate - I don't know how, but I think my colleagues are open to listening to alternatives and I think, you know, this might be a chance for us to establish a dialogue. Until it really breaks new ground. Within the discipline and the various fields that are housed under what is now being called hispanic studies. So.

[Raymond Robertson leaves]

Fabiola Franco: You know, I am a linguist. And I'm the only person who has a degree in literature but also in linguistics. So, if we come with a different.. I agree with you, I'm not completely happy with the term. My problem is, if we come with a different term, the different term will be "infected", when we use the word infected by the previous term. For example, we were supposed to be called "underdeveloped countries" and we go strong mad. Wasn't that awful? I was mad on the time. So, they decided not to offend us anymore, and call us "third world countries". Well, "third world countries" has become,. has been infected by the sense of underdevelopment. To say "third world" is as bad as to say "underdeveloped". That's what happens in semantics. Until peoples attitudes change. What we have to change here is not the name. It's the attitude of the people. I [irrecog: vail you that as an enquest] No matter how do you change the word, the word, if the attitude is the same, the word will be infected by the other one. [looking at María Elena] I am not happy, I agree with you. I'm not completely happy but this seems to be a word that in a way places up us together. Personally, I won't, I would like to go together with you people.

[edit] Latino Studies

Ana Nájera-Mendoza: ... what would be the replacement of Latino Studies. Because originally, and I was thinking kind of beginning we were wondering if it would be placed under LTAM or Hispanic Studies and that's kind of where we kind of got that sense, of.. Latino Studies and the Hispanic Studies, I mean.. you know, and then I got a sense, what would be coming from right now, so, I was kind of wondering: a) where exactly is Latino Studies going to fall under? For those of us who plan to pursuit it. and b) what is going to be the development of the program? Whether it is going to be developed or how it’s going to happen.

[Anna Lifson walks in]

Jim Stewart: Now Latino Studies is an idea. In other places it’s a program. In many places in the United States it’s recognize as a form of interdisciplinary studies that has its own journals, that has its own library orders. And it even has its own degree program. So at Macalester it’s an idea. In the same way five years ago African Studies was an idea. We didn’t have one and we had to take some time to do one. I am speaking now, not as somebody who is in favor or not in favor of a program of Latino Studies – although I am. Actually, no, as somebody who has a tremendous amount of administrative experience in Macalester, I can talk about how a program comes into existence. Because I think that’s what your question is really about. What it takes for a program to go into existence, it seems to me, is, in a sort of order(?), we have four different things. One, a kind of cultural shift in the world. It makes the world at Macalester want to know something it didn’t want to know before. [Camille Samms and Romina Larouri walk in] Ten years ago we, we were probably one of the first colleges in the country that had a well developed environmental studies program. We were sort of ahead of the curve. Here at Macalester, we are behind the curve, when it comes to Latino Studies. The idea is now just becoming possible because enough students and enough faculty and enough discussion [irrecog] forced to the department of Hispanic Studies, has been able to go out in its definition of what it’s doing to the point of being able to hire María Elena. Is that fair? But you do a bunch of things within the United States that have to do with people who are… (María Elena: of Latin American descent) of Latin American descent, or, if you wanna be very about to say what Latin American descent is, of indigenous descent comes from this certain part of biography or what we might wanna say. What it takes to build the program, basically, is getting a faculty to do it. The problem that has been in plugging all these interdisciplinary programs is the fact that they exist on the margin of other departments and they’re very insecure and difficult to go. It became much easier to go African American Studies after you hired doctor Seleka(?) For the reason why that was, it was easy to pull the faculty members who does a lot of stuff on Africa, it sort of waves around. We have a lot of international students who come from that part of the world – it’s a world everyone wants to know more about and slowly, over a pace of five or six years, like growing a coala(?) leaf, it gets somebody who does this, somebody who does that, somebody’s hired in the history department who does Africa. You understand me? And then the possibility of the program becomes obvious. What it takes to do is [irrecog] agitation, what it takes to get you there is support from faculty, what it takes to get you there is a willingness to [irrecog: cause upon] and make your case. Then I think, right now, we have about two thirds of a case. You need a little bit more of something. Whether it is in the history department, or political science department, or art department, theatre department, you know what I’m talking about? I’ve got it that people are gonna start looking at departments until the kind of student pressure and the kind of faculty demand is [irrecog: hull] by the administrators and academic departments to a sufficient extent that you can bring in the next piece. If you find a proposal for a new minor and you don’t have the staff to do it, you’re doomed. Anybody at EPAG will tell you that. It’s that what EPAG is good at doing – trying to figure out, who’s doing off, in the way of courses and intellectual content to serve students well. And you hate to put together an inferior program. So, where we are, I think, is asking a question of LTAM, and Hispanic Studies, and I just speak for LTAM, become advocates for the [irrecog: keynote?] stuff. [Jessica Ramírez leaves] From the work we are streaming it beings to become that case – can we work to clean departments and programs to help build thast case. Then we would also need to talk about the new American Studies program. You know, which is, it has something like Ethnic Studies would be a really bad name. And the name we’re using is bad, it’s bad, I mean, American Studies trying to be Ethnic Studies is a disaster. To me, it’s full of problems. And what we’re gonna, when we start feeling like trouble, would be to have a Latino Studies program. You know, this is another place that you can put on, but it takes political work for it to take. Well, I think, two thirds of the way there. We need one more strong faculty voice [irrecog:self?] And the way to get it is by us starting to push for it. Yup.

[Danielle Maestretti leaves]

María Elena Cepeda: Just a really quick, a nuts and bolts question. And this is because I don’t have the experience here. And I want, the students who are interested to maybe hear this, Jim. And Tony, and anybody who has, Fabiola, Rogelio, David, anybody who is more experienced – what kind of things do students need to do, in order to start agitating or asking or pressuring the administration in different ways – to bring somebody else who does Latino Studies, for example. What kinds of things do you think could be adopted, for students to do, or constructive ways to ask for that sort of things, or maybe in that direction. I’m just wondering.

Fabiola Franco: …. Starting but you also at this point to be able to list it, we need more people in Latin American Literature. (oh, absolutely) So that the two fields need people. But you know? In Latin American literature, because Latin American literature is going is being cornered.

María Elena Cepeda: [irrecog] how do you go about instituting.. [irrecog] you know.. about asking for these things.. what part.

Fabiola Franco: First of all, be good students. Because people listen to good students.

David Sunderland: oh, yeah. I’m always thinking to do what you are already doing, which is to be present in the school paper, to write articles, justify your case, I think. I don’t know – I know not certainly know the chain of command as to the right people want ought to get to. You probably do, you probably do, you know. (someone says something) Peititions, of course. Getting name, numbers.

Jim Stewart: the person who need to know is who to call for [irrecog] Umm, we have an inquiry process at Macalester where every academic department has to makes the case for adding or replacing a position. So in another words, if - and this is entirely hypothetical – the drama dept. Theatre dept needs to replace somebody who resigned or retired, or they.. although in the hope of being granted the new position. The idea would be to know, that that’s the case being made, and that you ought to make it in conjunction with LTAM and with Hispanic Studies in a powerful argument to recruit someone in Latino Studies. The idea of having specific points of attack (laugh) through the hiring plan, which EPAG is responsible for, along with the provost – that’s what I used to do when I was the provost. And they plan ahead for these things two or three years. Everybody knew, before I left Macalester - teaching – two years ago. That I was gonna be going. So there’s a very very long dialogue on how to replace me. And there was a great deal of student input that went into that. And the idea of saying – writing articles on the paper, or like, talk and pressure in a variety of different ways – if you know exactly who are [irrecog] to be responsive to you. The likelihood of being able to get something through [irrecog] increases the curriculum. Because that’s what

David Sunderland: how do students get that road map? How do you..

[someone else speaks: … everybody?]

Jim Stewart: Ok, well,

Romina Larouri: I think I need one.. I think we need two things that are important to the students or whoever are interested in adding anything you – is important to do. The one thing is just to get students mobilized. Find students who asre interested in something you are in. Get them to work on it, do some research, talk to other schools that have this kind of program, and in this case that would be like Latino Studies, I’m sorry I’m [irrecog: mistaco?] so I’m not really sure. But the second thing would be whether we would be like the amount the administration is like. Very very important. And they will be the people who will be making the final decision. So if you can find faculty who are interested in some kind of way in get them, you know, to safe the [irrecog:shorts?] work for you, that’s also a good thing to do. And also a rteally really good proposal that shows why, why it’s important for Macalester, for the Macalester Community to have such a program. And then that proposal, most partly would go to EPAG, which is the main people who decide it, when it comes to occassion times, comes for allocating people and what they should teach – that’s how they usually do it.

Jim Stewart: .... to be able to put something together that would make a strong case for the college. That’s just what it makes sense.

[Jim Stewart leaves]

Katheryne Yngve: just a copule quick political lessons for the students. If you’re looking for comparison schools for Latino Studies, it doesn’t do any good to be looking at Stanford and Harvard (approving laughs) you need to be looking at comparative, maybe, you already know this, because you guys are pretty sophisticated, comparative liberal arts colleges, the Swarthmores and the Grinnells that we’re hoping to be. And the second is that in my opinion, the situation is favorable in that we’re still looking for the Dean of Multicultural Studies whom we still haven’t hired and somebody should be going out and saying “and this person should be an expert in Latino Studies”.

Fabiola Franco: I hope to be… because we always talk a lot about democracy, and how democratic we are. Every time they hire a person in multicultural studies, that person has not been a Ph.D. and if you’re not a Ph.D. among the faculty, you have no power. Remember that.

David Sunderland: Are we practically talking about working towards what constitutes a concentration as a first step, no? So knowing what that is, what the students have been informed themselves as to what that constitutes, how many FTEs do you need, and where, and targeting where you might be get, it seems to be the practical approach.

[edit] Future of Latin American Studies

Sneh Rao: early in the meeting it was mentioned that LTAM as a program is being housed within Hispanic Studies because there is a lack of Full-time Faculty members who govern LTAM independently. So basically I was just wondering if given the particular importance of LTAM as an area studies, is there a movement in place sort of in project to hire enough long-term full time faculty members so that LTAM can govern itself, given that it is a very important program?

Tony Dorca: … I think one of the deficits that we have is that we don’t have any person who is appointed exclusively in LTAM, the way we have people appointed exclusively to American Studies or even Women’s Genders Studies. We don’t have that. So basically, again, we play what we have when we don’t have the best solution. I was part of the decision – it was that, I’m not sure what the future is gonna be, it’s going to depend upon the number of majors, you know. We get a high number of majors, then we might ask for more from the administration. But we shouldn’t forget of course that these are hard times financial and the school is not doing very well, so it might be hard to have something like, for instance, what American Studies has, or what Women’s and Gender Studies has. Ideally, yes. That would be wonderful

Fabiola Franco: they said they would appoint an independent person – another person to be the chair of Latin American.. didn’t you just say?

Tony Dorca: Raymond Robertson

Fabiola Franco: Raymond…?

Tony Dorca: He’s [irrecog]

Jim Stewart: he’s not being part of the Department of LTAM, but he’s doing a lot more economics and we don’t have a person who only does LTAM.

Fabiola Franco: but this is the way that LTAM has functioned since we created it in 1993. It was before he[Jim Stewart] was speaking. [silence] I was the founder. I was the … [irrecog] from the time I founded it with the [irrecog] but now I have to be the.. [irrecog] which is necessary. And probably with [irrecog: sorry, the recorder is on the other side of the room] more people taking LTAM, we’ll arrive – believe, we’ll arrive. (laugh) We’ll arrive if one tries very hard.

Romina Larouri: just [irrecog: to also] help answering the question; I think the administration, and especially EPAG and other faculty have shown a great interest in LTAM. It’s not something that’s gonna go away. Because they’re just very interested and wants to keep it. And once it is stronger financially, it will eventually hire, you know, faculty that will be there just for LTAM. One other reason that LTAM moved to Hispanish (sp?) Department is, we just also like, kind of every step in every new major is the importance of having a home. I guess, I think that’s what students who are majoring in LTAM, you know? There wasn’t a home for them, you know, for. the department. Other departments have, like, Political Science has that department, they go and spend time there. So I think this is kind of like the first step in providing that home for the students, and also new students that are interested, will start saying “oh, LTAM is where the Hispanic .. program,” you know, and they’re right there. So you have somewhere to go to and more people will start getting interested in the major. And when that happens, then more faculty will be hired that are gonna be only, you know, for that specific … department.

[edit] Current state of Latino Studies

Ana Nájera-Mendoza: ... back to Latino Studies. Because this is what I wanna do. I always ask, I want to do Latino Studies. Long-term, like it’s going to take a very long process because we need to be able to hire new faculty to come in and to help form a major or concentration or whatever it is, but in the short term, who are here now, and who want to pursue this.. we do have an option – students have an option that’s kind of creating their own minor, concentration or major as it is. [Tova Sularz leaves] And I do know that the U has Chicano/Chicana Studies and under the under some other ACTC schools also have classes, so, considering we are an ACTC school, we could take classes from other schools, how receptive is Macalester faculty to having current students designing their own minor or major or whatever it is – Pan Latino Studies – and supplementing our process now with independent studies projects here with faculty here, and also taking classes at other schools.

David Sunderland: … and the question I had was, what is the status of “concentration” versus “minor”, and how are we.. you know, thinking about that – because minor can developed by standing departments as they exist now with putting-together-kind-of course offering without having to have the Full Time FTE, now to create program per say. And so if we feel that we have the resources in Hispanic Studies to create a minor in Hispanic Studies, but I see it as incremental; and I see it as one of the tactics we could possibly adopt. That we can begin to see enough people to get into the minor we have the justification to having further faculty and perhaps you have, I don’t know what the next level is, but I know that these categories have been set by EPAG last year – and I think it’s a way to think about starting it. There’s nothing preventing us from starting a minor, in Spanish, as I understand it now.

Tony Dorca: you mean a minor… in

David Sunderland: in Latino Studies. Nothing, [to prevent us from starting the minor] Nothing. We have to decide what courses we want to dedicate to that, and a minor is five beyond a certain level, as far as current requirements are, and I think we could put that together. I, maybe I’m just, blowing air – I’m not sure, but I think.. (laugh) [Fabiola Franco talking simultaneously, but David Sunderland was closer to the recorder] I think it’s a possibility. . It’s a possibility.

Fabiola Franco: … why not?

Tony Dorca: as far as it being a possibility, I think it is a real possibility that we could develop a.. what is going to be called an interdepartamental concentration. (DS: Exactly but it’s incremental) And you know that, you know, I mean.. in a couple of years, maybe. And I think EPAG would not be opposed to it. As long as what.. Jim said, we make a strong case and we present a good, plan, that we are going to [irrecog] Talking about Latino Studies as a major, now, I mean… unless we get the [irrecog: higling?] , that would be impossible at this point. But you know, as a minor, and then a concentration. And we in the Hispanic Studies Department are all in favor. It’s important.

Fabiola Franco: And .. remember this. I’ve been here for a long, long time. And now I’ve realized with sadness that our responsibility is to educate – educate the administration about our own cultures. Because they have so much in their hands – they don’t know much. This school has a privilege, a tremendous privilege with its foreign students, and “minorities” – the way they call us – well, I don’t like the word. And we have to educate them. Because we are in Minesoota [deliberate Minesoootan accent] Don’t forget. (laugh) Please, don’t. So we have to help educating the people. Every time I say I was born in Colombia, they ask me, oh, so how is the coca. Babies, I’ve never seen the coca in my life. That’s true, I don’t know how it look like. I mean, that’s Minnesota’s idea of what country is. Or what the group is. We have to be patient and educate them. That’s it! And you [irrecog:achieve] Now that you are young, and have strength, and have everything, think that you have a tremendous, beautiful opportunity to educate people.

Katherine Yngve: … all the faculty staring at me. But I feel that 200 transfers a year and no one of them ever say what you major is. If you want to take these courses and say call it a major when you’re applying for a job, nobody’s gonna know any difference. (laugh) I mean, I did that when I graduated (big laugh) And look where I am! (more laugh) They didn’t have International Studies when I was, you know, it wasn’t a discipline then.

María Elena Cepeda: That’s really subversive, I like that.

Katherine Yngve: Yeah [laugh] it’s very Macalester

David Sunderland: … Latino / Latin American Department. At St. John’s. And whether or not somebody gets a major in Latino Studies in that department, I doubt it very much. It’s a combined major, or a maybe a minor – no matter, it’s going to at least appear and show what you are doing.

María Elena Cepeda: I guess that while I like the subversive nature of what you are suggesting, my concern is that people don’t collapse the two fields – U.S. Latino Studies and Latin American Studies and that I want the students to be able to understand – the students who are visiting the school, the parents who are paying a lot of money to send them here, and the students that are sitting through a lot of classes to understand that they’re not the same disciplines – they are the related but not the same, and each..yeah

Jim Stewart: … the concept of federation would work with LTAM major and minor in Latino Studies.

Fabiola Franco: beautiful! The world..

Someone: under the Hispanic Department

María Elena Cepeda: now, and use the minor as a second step towards a major later on. And I think Latino Studies brings strength to LTAM and vice versa. Because I think any good student, and I’ve said this a million times now. Any good student in U.S: Latino Studies also has to be a very good student in LTAM and vice versa. Otherwise you’re not getting the whole picture. So I think we would be doing ourselves a great service if as LTAM majors we were required Latino Studies and Latino Studies required LTAM. So I don’t know, I’m all for helping the students, you know, develop a really strong case for Latino Studies ASAP.

Katherine Yngve: … the name of the courses to be..

María Elena Cepeda: absolutely.. and it will be clearly

Katherine Yngve: and what’s important is that they are taught in economics or whether [irrecog] or whatever, if they want to start.. I mean.. (laugh)

[silence]

[edit] Final remarks

Yongho Kim: ok, if anybody.. any one of the faculty members would like to have some closing comments? [silence] Professor Tony Dorca? (laugh)

Tony Dorca: it was.. and [irrecog] for everything, and..

David Sunderland: .. have us pushed to thinking creatively about what the resources we have, currently, how they could be packaged in a way that would be useful, and to build towards..

María Elena Cepeda: and what you would like to see in the future – like not only the people who we have right now, but we’ve got to build towards a future goal – on two levels, so.

Ana Nájera-Mendoza: and we’re very glad to see that you, the faculty, are being very supportive of the students’ needs, as well, and it’s not just the [irrecog] that we’re having a faculty member sympathetic to other cooperation with other faculty too, without an occasion. I think it is very encouraging as a student, so thank you to all the faculty who came.

[clap]

Yongho Kim: thank you so much for coming and if you’re interested in this kind of dialogue, please contact Gretchen Solomon, if you’re interested in having more sessions like these, so that we can follow up with a more.. together kind of effort towards other studies. And I’ll email you each one a transcript of the forum.

If you would like to have further dialogues of this kind, please don't hesitate to contact Gretchen Solomon, Academic Affairs Commission (AAC) Chair at the Student Government (MCSG) at gsolomonNO@SPAMmacalester.edu or 651-341-1496 - she would be happy to organize it for you.

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